And I like Milei.

Who doesn't?

Okay, you guys are stars in the podcast

now.

Out!

Sorry for the poor sound quality.

In the first recording, I didn't want the

mic to fully cooperate with the background noise,

so it's a bit messy, but it'll get

better later.

I say, I call them in Norwegian, Sofa

Kommunister.

Glory, glory, my people.

Your enemies are coming.

God is with you.

You will win.

I mean, definitely not the New York Times.

Liberty!

Liberty!

Liberty!

It's very easy to be a communist in

a free country.

Try being free in a communist country, and

then we'll talk about it.

Can I ask why you're here?

We're here to support Maria Corina, of course.

Do you have any thoughts about anti-demonstrations?

No, I don't.

We're used to it.

I've been interested in it every year.

Have you been here many years?

Many years, yes.

In Oslo Freedom.

Can you briefly explain what you're here for?

Oslo Freedom Forum is a conference on human

rights, democracy, but also technology, art, everything.

It's a conference in Oslo every year.

It's been here since 2009, and there are

about 1,500 people in the conference.

Do you think this is a good Freedom

Forum?

I think it's a very good conference.

I was also on the TV show, and

I think the committee leaders held a fantastic

conference.

They really said everything.

Ola Elvestuen, Freedom Forum.

What do you think of the opposition to

this Freedom Forum?

It's completely incomprehensible.

They're going to support the Maduro dictatorship in

Venezuela.

This is a very valuable Freedom Forum winner.

It's about supporting freedom and democracy in Venezuela,

and it needs stronger international support, because the

demonstrations that have been against it are quite

incomprehensible.

Maduro is already actively used in his speeches.

In many ways, they're being used by the

dictator to support himself, and it shouldn't be

that simple.

Here we need to support the Freedom Forum

winner and the fight for freedom and democracy.

It seems like there's a political dividing line.

It's the far left, perhaps, which is more

represented in the demonstrations against the Freedom Forum,

and which has shown support for the regime

before.

This has been a longer problem, that the

far left in Latin America has supported the

oppressive regime.

They've done it in Cuba, in Venezuela, for

a longer time, in Caracas.

Here we need a clearer line.

What we need to support is a development

of freedom and democracy in Latin America in

general, and we need to support the process

and the free elections, even if you disagree

with who you vote for.

Do you have any thoughts about...

There are several leaders from South America who

are here today.

Among others, if you listen to NRK, there's

also the far right president in Argentina, Javier

Milei, and it's the crazy people who have

come to support this.

There are four presidents who have voted for

me on the right, but there's no doubt

that all four have voted for free elections,

and that's the development we need to support

in Venezuela, and to support it also in

Latin America.

There's no doubt that these countries, if you

look over time, are also in a democratic

development, and the important thing is not to

have a very strong position on who they

are, but to support and hope that there

will also be free elections in the future.

We're standing here by the torchlight, hanging outside

Grand Hotel, waiting for the balcony doors to

open.

The torches are burning.

There's quite a lot of space here.

Yes, there's a lot of space in the

hallway, and in the front.

The torches are burning everywhere.

This is actually a bit stylish, don't you

think, Arne?

I got to see it.

When I got the news that the peace

council didn't want to arrange a torchlight this

year, I saw that it sounded very sad.

But here it's full of people, and not

least we're standing up.

Are you sad to say that the peace

council didn't make a difference in the world

at some point?

No, I agree.

It's worth underlining liberalism as a movement for

freedom.

Freedom, love, freedom.

Is there a large population of Venezuelans in

Norway?

Are there, in general, amongst the Venezuelans, support

for the peace price?

Or are you sort of on the other

side of that?

No, no, no.

I am thinking, in general, for most of

the opinion in Venezuela.

The majority in Venezuela think that this price

is very acceptable, in any case.

Yes, for sure.

It's a good price.

It's a good price.

It's a deserving nominee.

Yes, for sure.

It shows that the fighting is still ongoing,

and we work with the same target.

It's very important for the Venezuelan population.

Yes, for sure.

Do you have any particular reactions to the

counter-demonstrations?

Now they're not very present today, but there

were some demonstrations yesterday against the nomination.

OK, you know, in any case, we have

people in favor and people against.

It's a normal situation.

And that is democracy, when you can accept

both sides.

It's acceptable, but both sides have to respect

the other side.

It's the condition for me.

It's important, but everybody can think according to

his opinion or whatever.

But it's OK for me.

But now we have other demonstrations that support

the celebration for Maria Corina Machado.

Yesterday was the other concentration, a parade, for

encountering Maria Corina.

But this, for me, is democracy.

What is your own view on Maria Corina?

For sure, Maria is a good leader.

She represents all the opinions for Venezuela.

Not now, but maybe in the future she

will be the president of Venezuela as well.

It's important.

She is a very good leader and also

has keeping the spirit and the target for

the most of the Venezuelan population.

She is already elected, after all.

OK, it's El Mundo González.

You're right.

It's her proxy.

Yes, for sure.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity for

talking.

Who are you?

I am Johan.

Johan?

Yes.

Why are you here today?

I have lived in Venezuela.

Oh, you have?

Yes.

That's great.

I have lived there when Chavez had power.

And I have a good relationship with Venezuela.

That's why I say that I am extremely

critical of the regime.

In your own opinion, for a good reason.

Yes, for a very good reason.

Can I ask what you think about the

demonstrations yesterday?

Yes.

Do you have any thoughts about that?

I have never been to Venezuela and I

have never experienced living in such a country.

If I had, I would not have participated

in such a demonstration.

This is a joke.

You are very concerned about getting Maria Machado

to say that she is keeping a distance

from the Americans bombing boats.

This is a total detour.

Of course she is against it.

But it is very difficult for her to

express something that is critical today.

It's a bit strange to ask people to

keep a distance from the Piranhas when there

is a shark attacking you.

Yes, that's right.

In Maduro.

Yes.

It looks like someone has arrived on the

balcony.

It's probably the daughter.

Yes, it's the daughter.

Do you have any relationship with Maria Corinna?

Not at all.

But do you have any impression of her?

I think she is a tough lady.

And I think you have to be if

you want to be an opponent to the

regime.

I think she is smart.

And I think she is tactically smart.

But she is incredibly demanding.

So, may I ask what your name is?

Ivana.

Ivana.

So, I stopped by you because you have

this beautiful dress in Venezuelan colors.

Yes.

Very striking.

Yes.

May I ask why you are here tonight?

Yes.

Well, I live in Trondheim.

I moved from Venezuela in 2009.

And I have lived in this beautiful country

that has given me education and good working

opportunities.

But I had to flee my country because

of the situation.

Not only the political, because what I can

say now looking back is that it's not

left or right.

It's just criminal people against defenseless people.

That's what is happening to us.

And that's why I had to leave my

beautiful country.

Because I come from the northeast Venezuela.

It's one of the most beautiful areas in

the Caribbean.

You cannot imagine how beautiful that is.

You see the sea and you see the

green.

Do you have any impression of the Peace

Prize winner?

Oh, yes.

Do you like her?

Is she a unifying force for Venezuelans?

Or is she polarizing like some people are

claiming these days?

Well, for me, what I see from her

is that she's a relentless fighter for democracy

and for liberty.

As I say, this is not like polarizing

or being from this side or this side.

It's defending your freedom against criminals.

And she's been fighting for it to a

level that is indescribable.

She has sacrificed her family, her career opportunities.

She's an engineer.

She could also leave Venezuela, as I did,

and have a nice job in another country,

in a free country.

A better life.

But she sacrificed everything she had for the

freedom of Venezuela.

She could have chosen differently, but she chose

to fight.

Yes.

And to a level that is out of

anyone can imagine.

May I ask about your circumstances when you

left?

What were the direct causes that made you

feel like you had to leave?

I suffered an express kidnap.

So it's like a situation where people take

you as a hostage.

And then it's not like a long, it's

an express kidnap.

They have a name for it.

So it's like a short term.

It's just to take away your car and

your credit cards.

But for a person like me at the

time, it was something horrible.

I haven't experienced something like that.

And it was becoming worse and worse.

The anarchy in Venezuela is unimaginable.

Now, what you are describing is back in

2009 and before.

No, that was in 2006.

Yeah.

End of 2005.

But that was kind of the beginning for

me to say, because I didn't want to

leave my country.

If I show you the pictures of where

I lived in my country, it was a

paradise.

It's something like, it cannot get better than

that.

It's the Caribbean part.

You have the mountains, you have the beaches.

You have all the forests getting into the

beach.

So it's like the green and the blue

combined.

It's like something that even when I was

born there, I didn't take it for granted.

I was thankful every day about where I

lived and where I was.

And that's not easy to leave behind.

No, and I'll grant you, it's worse here.

No, Norway is extremely beautiful and scenic.

Yeah, but it's cold and wet.

It is, but you have the freedom and

that doesn't have a price.

She thought snow was like 5 Celsius hot.

Yeah, I always tell my kids that when

I was a little girl, I didn't imagine

that.

I saw the snow on the TV and

I thought it was just such a beautiful

thing.

Because I was imagining it to be like

warm in a way, because I had no

idea.

I see.

Can I ask you one more thing?

So 2006, 2009, that's still Chavez.

Yes.

So it seems you left the country under

the rule of Chavez.

Yes.

And it got too bad while Chavez was

running things.

Yeah, Chavez destroyed our country.

He was the first one destroying our country

and setting the fundament for all these disasters

that happened afterwards.

So that was the plan all along, with

Chavez or without him.

So the reason I ask is because in

the debate in Norway, there's a tendency to

say that Chavez meant well.

And then Maduro came and everything went to

shit.

Well, in my opinion, no.

In my opinion too.

And then the facts back up my opinions

also.

But it's difficult.

So I think the Nobel Prize Committee have

done an extremely well job in kind of

explaining what happened in Venezuela, how we came

to this point.

Because it's difficult.

It's difficult to explain.

For sure.

I talked to a Norwegian politician before and

he was crystal clear that being against this

is madness.

Yeah.

Because there is no comparison between the two

sides here.

It's not sizes.

It's not sides.

It's like being free, having democracy.

I have not been to my country in

12 years.

Because I'm too afraid.

And even when I have lived in Norway

for all these years, I still don't feel

like I am a free person.

And I haven't been in Venezuela since never.

Yeah, because you were born here.

Yeah.

So what's it like for you as the

son of a refugee, really?

Yeah.

And you've grown up here, you've heard the

stories from Venezuela, from your native lands?

Yeah.

My dad is from Oslo, though.

Oh.

Yeah.

But he also lived in Venezuela.

Yeah.

Your father?

Yeah.

My father.

But the thing is that I want to

see us recovering our freedom and democracy so

we can at least go on vacation.

Yeah.

You're going to show your son the country,

right?

I would be proud to see it, but

not in the case now.

But now it's...

Yeah, now it's...

While those criminals are there, we are not

going back.

Oh.

So may I ask your name?

David.

David.

Yeah.

So David, as a son of a refugee,

in reality, you've been born here.

Yeah.

You've grown up here.

May I ask if you feel sort of

more Norwegian or Venezuelan?

I feel more Norwegian, yeah.

Because that is part of the problem, right,

with this crisis?

Because I imagine that doesn't feel perfect to

you.

No, it's...

That your son feels Norwegian.

The reality is that he has lived his

whole life here.

But he...

But at least I'm doing my best to

teach him the language and to teach him

the culture.

So maybe we can go back.

Maybe he can live some years when we

recover our freedom.

Yeah, get to know the country of your

forefathers.

And maybe feel more Venezuelan at some point.

But it's sort of illustrating the evil of

bad regimes.

But we are the lucky ones.

Yeah.

We are the lucky ones that we...

In a sense.

Yeah.

But you're still oppressed.

Yeah, it's...

You can't go back to where you were

born.

And your son doesn't even know your country

of origin.

No, he's only seen the pictures.

Yeah, he saw my pictures.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what are you thinking?

May I ask how old you are?

Twelve.

You're twelve years old.

Yeah.

So what's your...

Do you want to experience Venezuela?

Do you want to live there?

Do you want to get to know the

culture and the language and all of those

things?

Yeah, I'd like to go to vacation and

learn some things.

I speak Spanish very well.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah.

That's very useful too.

Yeah.

I speak Norwegian.

That's completely useless.

I speak all three languages that I know

very well.

Yeah.

I mean, you speak perfect English as well.

Thank you.

So that's awesome.

I did not speak more than one and

a half languages when I was twelve.

Well, I think I learned my third language

like around eight or so.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Now your mother is being taken a picture

of because of her beautiful dress.

Yeah.

She has gotten many pictures.

Yeah, I can imagine.

Yeah.

And she got interviewed by Swedish television.

By Swedish television, yeah.

Yeah.

I'm actually going to steal a picture of

her also before we leave.

I do prefer you than Swedish, by the

way.

Yeah, those Swedes are bad, huh?

Yeah.

So, do you have anything you'd like to

say about Venezuela that we haven't talked about

from your perspective?

Yeah, I don't like that the regime is

autocratic, communist, whatever you'd like to call it.

Yeah.

So, I'd wish to like go to a

vacation there.

It seems really nice.

So, we're in the crowd with a few

people with beautiful Venezuelan flags.

Do I take it correctly that you are

Venezuelan of origin?

Yes, we are.

Yes, we are.

Do you feel proud tonight?

We feel extremely proud tonight.

This is an epic moment for us.

And I live in Norway.

And I am really proud of the Norwegians

as well, and Venezuelans, and the whole world

is now looking at us in Venezuela.

And this is really an important and historical

moment for us because we need this attention

to finally make things happen towards a democratical

change in Venezuela.

It is a historical night.

The support of the Norwegian Institute for the

Noble has been clear.

I think there was no space for interpretation

in today's speech.

And I think that was very important.

It was a very beautiful surprise.

Sometimes institutes can be more diplomatic.

Today they were clear to the point and

they went as far as to demand Maduro

to step down, accept defeat, accept that he

stole the election and let Venezuelans live in

peace.

I was very positively surprised that Amnesty also

were very clear before.

Because they have been a little wishy-washy

on some things here and there.

They have been a little more political than

human rights focused, in my opinion.

But I also, by accident, talked to a

politician in the crowd before.

And he was also fully clear about what's

right and what's wrong in this situation.

So I was pleasantly surprised by that.

I think it's been 27 long years.

And I think finally everybody is clear.

I think that is due to Maria Corina's

determination.

She is a very straightforward leader.

She has never changed her position.

She has always led with the truth.

And along the way many leaders have come

and gone.

Maria Corina has always stayed.

And she finally got the recognition that she

deserved.

The Nobel is undoubtedly hers.

And also part of every Venezuelan.

I've talked to many people today.

And they are just eager to tell their

little part in the story.

And she inspired all of that.

I can certainly share in that.

Because I've also talked to a few Venezuelans

today.

And they are unanimous in their support for

Maria Corina.

Do you guys have any reaction to the

sort of counter-demonstrations that took part or

happened yesterday?

I think it's a space for both sides.

But it's important to respect.

And when it's facts that are so clear.

And they have presented today.

As you say, it was clear.

No room for interpretation.

Then it's just to go to the right

side of the story.

To be at that part where there is

no more room for autocratical and dictatorial regimes.

Narco regimes.

We don't need that.

We need democracy.

We need freedom.

We need love.

It is clear what is the right place

to be.

And the right side to be in this

chapter of the story.

I think that they are very privileged to

be in a country that allows free speech.

And that they were allowed to tell their

message.

I would invite them to check the facts.

And to actually listen to Venezuelans.

Instead of buying into misinformation.

And it's very easy to be a communist

in a free country.

Try being free in a communist country.

And then we'll talk about it.

I like to say that people don't know

how is the reality in those countries.

That communism is everyday.

I call them in Norwegian sofa kommunister.

You are out in your sofa and your

couch.

Just saying, oh this is wonderful.

The rigdom.

Prosperity.

Is distributed equally.

No, sorry.

It's not.

It is a lot of corruption.

A lot of things happening that have been

shown with facts today.

And then it is very easy to talk

from a very pleasant place.

You just have to travel there and see

the real thing.

So may I ask, because you live in

Norway.

Yes.

Have you lived here for long?

Yes.

25 years.

25 years?

Yes.

So do you have an impression of the

press coverage of Venezuela?

Is it fair?

Is it biased?

Does it give the right picture of how

you feel as a Venezuelan?

Or are there some pieces missing?

Pieces missing the whole way.

And that is what is difficult.

For example from Venezuela it is difficult because

the press is not neutral.

All the press is shut down.

Controlled by the regime.

In Venezuela.

In Venezuela.

And here you have this conservative or maybe

trying to get neutral.

And then it is difficult for the people

outside the country to understand the magnitude.

And then there is a lot of things

happening in the world.

And we haven't got any attention as we

have today.

So a lot of things happening and they

are prioritized to another wars or another problems

in the world.

And then right now it is the moment

to show what is really happening through the

25 or 27 years up to now.

So right now we are really showing the

truth of the situation that we have been

living for a long time.

This is not new.

And you feel that Maria Corina is a

good representative of the democratic movement in Venezuela?

Yes.

Totally.

And her daughter today, she represents us.

People that are really prepared to do the

change.

And to really just do the right things

to have a beautiful free country with property

and good values.

She represents us.

I had this like the demonstrations yesterday.

So one of the front figures were one

of the high up people in the communist

party in Norway.

And you know it is quite predictable.

But it is also quite pointed that that

party supported Chavez and the Maduro regime.

And now the peace price goes to the

people suppressed by these people.

And they demonstrate against it.

And then Maria Corina can't really come here

on the night because of the danger to

her life.

It is quite pointed, I have to say.

Yes.

The day after the price, the first peace,

they closed the embassy in Oslo.

The Venezuelan embassy in Oslo.

After they announced the price.

The embassy in Oslo is closed.

Maduro's embassy.

And that affects a lot of people.

Because it is not only for Venezuelans living

in Norway.

But also people from Finland.

They have to come here to do the

documentation.

And now it is closed.

There is only one embassy in the Nordics.

In the Nordics.

I wasn't aware of that.

And then it is closed.

The day after.

As a protest.

Because they are against.

That is the way they act.

I think Norway acted accordingly.

They offered to be part of the negotiation

process.

They helped arrange for the Barbados agreement.

And they managed to not comply with not

even one point of that negotiation.

I think that made it very clear for

Norway.

The regime stands on this issue.

And I think the Nobel Peace Prize is

a result of that as well.

It was like the last drop.

I think we have been denied justice for

the past 27 years.

We have gone to the UN.

We have gone to the International Court of

Justice.

We have gone to every instance available.

For these things not to happen.

And they have all failed us.

Today the Nobel recognized our cause.

Recognized the suffering of every Venezuelan.

And we will be forever grateful.

Norway again made history.

As you did in World War II.

And we will be grateful again for bringing

democracy to another part of the world.

So that is very beautiful.

And I would like to point out that

my favorite part of the speech today.

Was when Anna Corinna said.

We lived in a democracy.

We enjoyed the rights.

But we forgot our duties.

And that is a reminder for every democracy

around the world.

We love our freedoms.

But they come with a lot of responsibilities.

And sometimes we take them for granted.

I have been positively surprised myself by the

Norwegian government.

Because like Støre and Bartheide and the foreign

minister.

Tends to be a little sympathetic to let's

say left wing pet causes.

So you could suspect that they wouldn't be

as clear.

And they have been very clear.

Which is a relief for me.

No doubt.

We will be eternally grateful with this.

And I would like to point something.

For me it is something that goes beyond

politics.

It is something.

It is just about respect, dignity and values.

Human freedom.

Human freedom.

So it is not about politics.

And that is the common ground for every

one of us.

In every country.

And that is what we are fighting for.

Definitely.

I would invite everybody to learn more about

Venezuela.

We have curiosity.

Yes.

And I mean this crisis created one of

the worst diaspora problems in the world.

In the history of the world.

And at least something beautiful came out of

all that struggle.

Because now you see Venezuelans all around the

world.

And in every corner they shine a light.

For freedom.

In their jobs.

And I think we have all been part

of finally getting to here tonight.

And that is beautiful.

It was worth it.

All the sacrifices.

Yes.

I can say from my perspective.

I am very happy for you guys.

Thank you.

That this happened.

And that there wasn't any counter demonstrations or

any bullshit.

Yes.

I was afraid about it.

Yes.

I was very.

And I am happy that didn't happen.

And may I ask you one final thing.

If anyone wants to follow the situation in

Venezuela.

From a sort of a neutral perspective.

Are there any news sources in English.

Or somewhere you should go to seek out

this information.

Well I would invite them to try to

follow local journalists.

Obviously they are not in Venezuela anymore.

They had to leave.

But try to find Venezuelan journalists around the

world.

That tell the stories of the diaspora.

And ask if you meet a Venezuelan.

Ask them why they are here.

Why they are not back at home.

I think the free press has been doing

a good job of covering the news lately.

I think the Wall Street Journal.

I can't remember.

I mean definitely not the New York Times.

Definitely not.

Yes.

So try to find local independent media.

Or independent journalists.

And usually if you are reading a news.

Ask are they telling me something.

Or are they trying to make me feel

something.

And if they are trying to make you

feel something.

It is usually manipulation.

So dig deeper.

This is sound advice.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We are still here.

Hello again.

Hello again.

So interesting to hear the stories.

So you were telling me about all the

people coming from different places.

And a couple of you are not really

living in Norway.

May I ask first where you guys have

come from?

I have come all the way from Mexico.

From Mexico?

Yes.

Wow.

Just from Spain.

From Madrid.

From Spain.

That doesn't count.

I know.

You should have started with me.

Yeah.

Bad dream.

Bad dream.

No.

But as me there has been so many

other people.

I read the news about a person who

did a GoFundMe.

So she could come all the way here.

And she made it.

Another person who came from Japan.

And had to take many many flights.

And a journalist that was awarded the opportunity

to come here to cover the news and

the event.

And we have seen political prisoners.

Not only from Venezuela.

There is plenty of political prisoners around the

world.

From Nicaragua.

From Nicaragua.

I met two from Nicaragua.

Many from Venezuela.

And also I was very excited.

I was a little bit star struck yesterday

when I met Masi Alina Jed.

And I think her story is amazing.

And for her to be here.

And what she told us last night.

That she had to be here.

She had to be with Maria Corina.

That was very exciting.

So to see the support from all over

the place.

I just talked to a Japanese reporter.

And she came all the way from Japan.

And she was also very excited to be

here.

So every story.

Everybody telling us the little bits and pieces

that they did.

To be able to count all the ballots.

There was this man that had to hide

the ballots in his wig.

Under his wig.

And he was so nervous and sweating.

And he was like.

The ink is going to get ruined.

The ink is going to get ruined.

And I was like.

And these are all the anonymous heroes.

And to be able to find all these

different pieces.

Tell him about the girl who took my

hat.

So after the speech we were coming back.

And she dropped her hat.

And then this young lady grabbed it and

said.

Excuse me ma'am.

And she turned around.

And she was like.

Why are you calling me ma'am?

So we started laughing.

And then we started talking.

Because that's how Venezuelans we are.

And then we started talking.

And it got serious.

She was like.

This is so important for me.

You can't tell.

But my head is covered with bullets.

Perdigones we say in Spanish.

And she told me her story of being

an activist.

A student activist.

And being persecuted by the regime.

And it was just so moving to have

her.

To have met her.

She was there just like one of us.

Exactly.

She was just here to be present.

I think it means so much to so

many of us.

And it's personal to everyone.

How do you guys interpret.

That there's a few heads of state from

South America.

It was Malay.

Ecuador.

Panama.

Honduras.

No.

Paraguay.

And coming here to support the Peace Prize.

It seems to me.

Happy with that?

Yes.

That was very important.

Not only happy.

Grateful.

Yes.

Very grateful.

And also it means a lot.

Because the freedom of Venezuela.

Means the freedom of the whole continent.